Hello and welcome to the Monster & The Child, where childhood studies and monster studies collide. I am Dr. Kathleen Kellett, and I am extremely excited to welcome you to interview weekend over here on the channel. Over the next three days, you’ll be getting three new videos, all of which include very interesting people who aren’t me. These conversations are all exciting enough that I am sure you will excuse the less than stellar Zoom webcams. So today and tomorrow I will be releasing author interviews, and on Sunday you will get to hear from two of the original participants from my dissertation book club, and I will be telling you all about what I have planned next for my educational programming. But before we get to that, I could not be more excited to tell you that I had the extremely cool opportunity to meet two authors of middle-grade horror novels, Ally Russell and Laura Parnum. They were invited to speak at Thrillerdelphia, an extremely rad horror and thriller bookstore where I am in Philly. And also shout out to Wi-Moto Nyoka, who is an incredibly cool horror writer and artist herself, for letting me know about this event. I have a link to Wi-Moto’s site in the description, and everyone should absolutely check out her production company, Dusky Projects. So, we went to this event and heard all about the exciting world of spooky middle-grade. Both Ally and Laura were gracious enough to grant me an interview with them when I spoke to them after their book talks and now here we are. This first interview is with Ally Russell and Laura’s will come out tomorrow. Ally Russell is the author of It Came From the Trees, Down Came the Spiders, and Mystery James Digs Her Own Grave. It was this last book that she was discussing at Thrillerdelphia and that’s also the one that I have now read and very much enjoyed. I did a more detailed reaction to it over on Patreon. So, if you are interested in supporting me on there, you can hear a little bit more. But I am so pleased to offer all of you this conversation that I had with Ally, which was absolutely wonderful. We discovered that we both got our children’s lit degrees in the same program at Simmons University, though it was Simmons College when we were both there. And our mutual interests very much did not end there. Though on here I talk a lot about monster stories with kids in them. My first love is and always will be monster stories for young people. Ally’s writing is a bright and creepy light in that space. So without further ado, please enjoy this discussion about the importance of monsters for middle-grade readers.

KATHLEEN: Okay, so, first off, um, please tell us a little bit about your books. Um, who are the kids in your novels, and who are the monsters? Or what are the monsters?

ALLY: Um, well, I… I have a few. I won’t… I won’t tell you about the Wednesday one, because that’s just IP work, but um… I am author of It Came from the Trees, and the monster in this is a humanoid Bigfoot-esque creature, right there. Um, and then I’m also the author of Down Came the Spiders, and the monsters are the spiders, but also humans to a degree, because: always humans. We are so terrible to nature. Um, and then Mystery James Digs Her Own Grave, um, and the van… or the monster in this is a vampiric ghost named Baron, and he’s on the cover. Um, I… I would say, as far as, like, the kids, I like to think that I write about pretty tough and brave kids. Um, I think that kids handle a lot of things that, like, adults don’t think that they can handle. Kids are tougher than we give them credit for. And one of the things that I hope I’m including in, like, all of my books is that, like, kids are fiercely, fiercely loyal to their friends. Um, and I think that that is something that, like, we forget as we go into adulthood. Like, we… at the first sign of discomfort or, you know, something that, like, upsets our lives, and I get it, you know, to a degree, um, adults are always looking for a way, ah…I’m too busy with work, or I’ve, you know, got my own family, or I’ve got my own problems, and a lot of adults are willing to, like, step away from friendships in a way that, like, kids aren’t, and I hope that I’m writing about, like, kids who are essentially willing to go to hell and back, you know, for their friends, um, because I think that that’s something that we forget about, that loyalty, that extreme, fierce loyalty to our friends, and I think it’s really…um, it’s a really compelling thing in middle grade fiction.

KATHLEEN: Yes, I really enjoyed that aspect of, uh, Mystery James, how Garrett, even though sometimes he extremely didn’t want to be there, um, was willing to stick it out for Mystery.

ALLY: Garrett is the adult in all of us, and we’re like, you’re doing what? Why?

KATHLEEN: Why… why is this happening? Why are we in a haunted cemetery in the night?

ALLY: Well, our brains are fully developed, so we’re like, no, we’re not doing this. But, you know, as kids, you know, when your brain is still growing, and, you know, your emotions are changing, and you’re going through puberty and adolescence and, like, it’s a very different experience for them, and I…I can think back to like – and I think that’s why we, like, have so much media about … like, you even think of, like, big name… bigger authors, like, you know, Stephen King, It, one of his most popular properties. It’s got kids, like, fighting, you know, against and evil for each other. And, like, Stranger Things, like, all these, like, properties where you have, like, kids, because kids are just loyal to their friends in a way that, um, adults, unfortunately, are not always.

KATHLEEN: I am literally, uh, working on a script about IT right now. That’s what I was doing all this morning.

ALLY: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you get it, so.

KATHLEEN: Yep. And so for, um, members of my audience who might not be as familiar with the term middle grade, um, how would you describe that sort of age range of fiction?

ALLY: Yeah, middle grade, I mean, it’s just typically for… for kids who are ages 8 to 12. They’re…it’s a big spectrum, right? Like, you know, what is interesting to an 8-year-old might not necessarily be as interesting to a 12-year-old and, like, vice versa, so I think that there is some…there’s some ongoing issues within the age range right now, just because, like, we are seeing, like, a big drop-off of kids once they hit… because there’s, like, a gap, right? Like, you go middle grade to YA, and so, like, a lot of YA is written for older teens. Um, so there is a big gap of, like, where we still need fiction for kids who haven’t quite, you know, aged all the way into, like, YA, but they’re still, you know, in that, like…that little space. So, like, I am trying… I’m specifically trying to write, uh, fiction for readers who are 10+. Um, and I know that there are people who write for, like, the younger end of the middle grade spectrum, so. But it’s really just, you know, fiction for, um, kids who fall into that age range. Obviously, depending on, like, reading level and emotional intelligence, like, it might… you might veer toward one end of the spectrum or the other. Um, and then also with middle grade fiction, like the characters tend to be more, um, concerned with things that are happening, like, in their immediate, direct life, um, things that directly, like, impact them.

KATHLEEN: Yep, that makes sense.

ALLY: Yeah.

KATHLEEN: I really appreciate the sort of older middle grade focus, because I write my own fiction. I’m not published yet, haven’t had any luck with that yet, but um…but I tend to write sort of older YA, but I do have one sort of older middle grade, um, manuscript. And when I think about, like, the stuff that really cemented a lot of my favorite things about fiction. It was, like, that age, it was, like, 12.

ALLY: Same. Same. Yeah, I find that, like, that is…you’re being, like, shaped at that age, you know? Like, you’re turning into the person that you are going to become, like, you’re stepping out from your parents’ or your guardian’s wing a little bit, you know, you get a little more freedom from, like, school, like, your friend… everybody’s developing at, like, different rates, you know, emotionally. Um, so, like, it’s… it can be a really, really tough time, and so, like, I found that, like, I found a lot of solace in, like, books at that time, when everything else felt, like, so shaky and uncertain, and I didn’t know, like, what to do. Like, it was like, oh, I’m just gonna read my book, I guess.

KATHLEEN: Yeah, absolutely. Very much same. Okay, so next question, um, what made you want to combine monsters with children’s literature? And specifically middle grade.

ALLY: Yeah, I… I don’t know if I…it’s not something that, like, I consciously chose. I think that it’s… it… like, monsters have just always been a huge part of children’s storytelling. Like, even when we go back to, like, stuff like, you know, Grimms’ Fairy Tales, um, there are monsters all throughout, some of them human, some of them animal, um, so I feel like monsters in children’s fiction are just kind of, like, a staple, and that’s whether, you know, they’re, like, human or animal or ethereal, like, however, whatever shape the monster takes. Um, so I think, for me, I just wanted to approach monsters, I guess, in a different way, because, like, you know, the monsters that… I’m not sure of your age, but, like, um, I am 38.

KATHLEEN: I’m 37.

ALLY: Okay. So, like, the monsters that we were reading about, you know, are… are different than, like, what kids, like, might consider a monster today. Um, so I think the challenge for me was, like, to just write about monsters in a way that, like, hadn’t been done a thousand and one times before. Um, so for me, that was like, you know, Bigfoots and cryptids, like, that’s, like, something that I think kids are still into. Um, I feel like that’s, like, a universal, like, that all kids go through a period where they’re into cryptids.

KATHLEEN: Yep.

ALLY: Um, so, like, yeah, so, like, I think they just go hand-in-hand really well, um, because you can use those monsters to kind of, like, represent other things in the world that, like, kids might be scared of. And then I think, you know, we just talked about it, like, as far as, like, picking middle grade, um, my fondest reading memories are, like, from that age range, like, from ages, like, 8 to 12. That’s when I was reading Goosebumps, that’s when I was, like going to the library and getting, uh, Scary Stories To Tell in the Dark, and, um… Oh, I’m drawing a total blank on one of my other favorites. It’s JB Stamper, Tales for the Midnight Hour. That was another spooky one, that’s how I learned what a bloody stump was, which is quite frightening, uh, you know, when you’re, like, 9. Um, so, like, that… but I was also, like, safe. I was very safe at home, you know, with my parents and, like, reading under a blanket kind of thing, so, like, I… I want to, like create that same atmosphere, like, um…When you’re reading at that age, horror, like, it just feels a little bit like a rollercoaster, like it’s scary a little bit, but it’s also fun. Like, your heart goes up and down, and, you know, you’re reading a really scary scene, and then, oh! Time for dinner. So, um, and adult horror is, like, I’m consuming it in a different, uh…in a different atmosphere, a different context, like I’m, you know, more aware of, like, what’s going on in the world, and, like, you know, paying your own bills, and, like, all these adult things that you have to worry about. And so horror, I still love it, but it’s not as, like, carefree and fun as it was at that age. So, like, I think that specifically is, like, what made me want to pursue monsters at that age, because, like, it’s, uh… it’s a fun time to, like, be experiencing horror.

KATHLEEN: Yeah. I… I was…I think, based on… based on context, probably much more of a scaredy cat than you, when it came to…Oh, no?

ALLY: Oh. No, no, I was terrified all times. So, like, I am terrified of the dark still. I am terrified of heights. I didn’t used to be afraid of heights when I was a kid, but now I am.

KATHLEEN: Same.

ALLY: But, like, I… as a kid, uh-uh, I had night lights, um, I didn’t like getting up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, anything like that. Like, I… I am a scaredy cat, I promise, you’re in good company.

KATHLEEN: No, but I mean, like, as a kid, I don’t think anyone would have predicted I’d go into, like, monster stuff, like, because I could not really deal with horror much, uh, yet until I was older. Um, although I did…Goosebumps was one of the few things my mom didn’t want us to read. Usually she wouldn’t, like, make rules around what we were allowed to read, but she mostly just didn’t like them, so she was like, eh, no.

ALLY: Oh, interesting.

KATHLEEN: Which I do think is interesting, and I give her a lot of crap for now. But – But so obviously, no, it’s forbidden, so now I have to go and sneak them from the school library. Um… so I did read those. But, um…Yeah, she did say that she was sort of chastised for her, uh, distaste for them when she volunteered at the school library, uh, when my sister and I were kids, because she was like, these books are so kind of trashy, and the librarian is like, kids love them, and kids read them.

ALLY: Yeah.

KATHLEEN: So, they’re great, actually. And she was like, all right!

ALLY: Isn’t it so funny, like, what the things that, like, parents will, like, zoom in on and be like, no? Um, because I… I didn’t have a lot of, like, reading restrictions either when I was a kid. Like, I could pretty much read anything, and I think by the time I was, like, 11, I was reading Stephen King, because, like, there also wasn’t, like, the middle grade landscape is… was not at all back then what it is today. Um, so it was like, you either… you did Goosebumps, and then from there, you went to Christopher Pike, or Christopher Pike or R.L. Stein. And then from there, it was like, guess I’m… guess I’m moving on to Stephen King, um, because the horror world just wasn’t, you know, what it is today, like, as far as, like, children’s lit. So, like, it’s funny what parents will choose to say, like, no to, because I watched every… pretty much every horror movie growing up. Um, I saw my first horror movie when I was, like, 4 or 5. Um, and it was… it was a werewolf movie, Silver Bullet, but like…uh, the thing for… in my house was, like, no Simpsons. Like, I was not allowed to watch The Simpsons, but all my friends could watch The Simpsons.

KATHLEEN: Yeah, it’s so arbitrary. It’s always so… it’s just based on tastes, um, yeah.

ALLY: Goosebumps and The Simpsons.

KATHLEEN: As though there aren’t, like… Meanwhile, I started reading, uh, Les Miserables. I tried to read it when I was, like, in fifth grade. My mom was like, yeah, sure.

ALLY: Oh, wow. That’s funny, that’s funny.

KATHLEEN: Yeah. And now, I mean, I didn’t quite succeed in 5th grade, but now it’s one of my favorite books, so.

ALLY: I love that.

KATHLEEN: All right, um…So, on my channel, I talk a lot about stories that challenge social constructions of childhood. Um, and are there any commonly held beliefs about childhood that you hope to challenge through your work?

ALLY: Um, I…I guess, like, the notion that, like, childhood is completely 100% innocent. Um, I think a lot of adults forget how hard childhood can be, and, like, even, you know, I was talking about how, like, I was reading horror at that age, and it was, like, really formative, but it was also really fun, and, like, you know, I enjoyed reading horror as a kid, but, like, I also, in my –  in my adult years, as I’m writing for kids, I’m spending a lot of time thinking about how hard childhood was. And I mean that from, like, just like a me perspective, like, I… but I’m… I assume it applies to everybody, because, you know, childhood is a universal experience. Everybody experiences it. Um, and I… I think about, like, the fact that, like, I was not in control of anything, I was not in control of myself, I was not in control of, you know, my circumstances, like, everything is decided for you. Um, and then if you’re like me, like, I struggled a lot with anxiety, and it’s like, it’s really hard if, when you’re a kid, to, like, try to explain those feelings to, like, adults, because also at that time, like, we weren’t talking about, like, you know, some of these things that do affect kids today, like something that seems quite simple, but is really not, like, something like anxiety. Like, your stomach’s not supposed to hurt every day, like, you know, but I just assumed everybody else was feeling that. So I think a lot about, like, how hard childhood was in that sense, like, um… you know, the first day of school, even though I’ve known these kids, I went to the same school from, like, grades K through 8, and, like, even though I’ve known these kids for my whole childhood, like, every day walking into school, like, my stomach still hurt because it felt like a new experience, and I was very, like, anxious about it. And so, like, just this idea that, like, childhood is just 100% completely fun and innocent, I think it’s a fallacy, and like it can be that for some kids, um, and this is how I knew that, like, I didn’t have the same childhood as some kids, because some kids, like, are not afraid to get into trouble. And that was never… like, that was the worst thing in the world for me. It’s like, oh, it’s going on your… on your public, on your permanent record. I’m like, my permanent record? What is that? So, like, I, you know, it’s… it can be that for, um, some kids, but it’s not that for all kids. There are some kids who don’t have safe childhoods, and I…I think, you know, we’ve seen that throughout history. We’re seeing it now. Um, so I think, or I hope anyway, that, like, my books are, um, showing kids characters who look like them, but also, you know, characters who are experiencing what they’re experiencing. And so, like, that can be, like, big stuff, like grief, um, is a big theme in Mystery James, and, um, It Came from the Trees, death. Um, it can also be smaller stuff, like changing friendship dynamics in, um, something like Down Came the Spiders, um, and I don’t mean, like, that’s a small thing, I just mean to say, like, in the – in the scheme of things, you know, like when you’re tackling, like, these… and, you know, it can feel just as big as, like, you know, grief. Um, so, like, I just want to show that, like, kids are… the kids in my books are, like, experiencing these things, they’re not in safe situations, and they are coming out okay on the other side of things. So, I just want to, like, yeah, challenge that notion that, like, everything is, like, safe and innocent and nice and okay, and children need to be protected. And, like, yes, we can do our best to protect children, but, like, at some point, like, they are going out into the bigger world, and they need to be prepared for what they’re going to encounter.

KATHLEEN: Yeah. That was something I really appreciated also about Mystery James, how, um… so, for context, uh, for viewers, um, Mystery was found in a cemetery, um, as a baby, and has been raised by a funeral director, who is a wonderful guardian, like, she’s a very loving, uh, person, she’s really funny. Um… but Mystery is still, like, has this fear that whenever something goes wrong, like, her… who she calls aunt, her guardian, will wash her hands of her. Um, and, like, I think that that is really… you know, I don’t think that, you know, Tia Lucy knows that she feels like that. Um, because if she did, she’d be like, oh my god, I’m never gonna give you up because you get in trouble.

ALLY: Yeah. Yeah.

KATHLEEN: But that’s, like, the sort of thing that kids are like, well, this is just a fear that I have that I can share with no one, and will just hold inside of me. Um, and it really shows, like, how, from an adult perspective, everything might be fine. She has a great home life, like, she… and she does, and she has this wonderful, uh, you know, mother figure. Um, but she is still dealing with these things internally. Especially now that she’s, like, a young adolescent.

ALLY: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

KATHLEEN: Okay, next question. Um… So, sort of back to the middle grade of it all, um, since most of my audience, um, most of the videos I do for YouTube are about, um, just, like, horror in general, but a lot of times it’s horror that has kids in it, but it’s not necessarily, like, children’s media. Um, so, like, IT. So, um, for probably my majority adult, um, viewership. Um, what do you think an adult might get out of reading a middle grade novel for themself?

ALLY: I think that… I mean, a story is a story, and everybody can learn something from a story, no matter, like, who it’s aimed at. Um, and I think that, like, if… especially if you’re somebody who is exactly the kind of person that I just talked about, where, oh, childhood was fantastic, it was wonderful, it was perfect. Maybe sit with that a little bit longer and think about, like, your childhood. Think about, like, the times that you were afraid, think about the times that, like, things might have been confusing. Um, think about all the times that you feel like you maybe weren’t listened to. Um, think about, like, anything that you were worried about, um, and I think that, like, middle grade is, uh, could be a good place for you to re… or a good area for you to read in. Um, I think especially if you’re somebody who’s, like, a parent or a teacher, um, and you’re… or you’re dealing with kids, in general, um, you know, we are experiencing a literacy crisis in this country, and I think part of it is that, like, I, like…How often do you go outside of the house and see people reading anymore? And so I think if, like, adults are caught reading… remember those… remember those Get Caught Reading posters?

KATHLEEN: Yes.

ALLY: If adults are… if adults are caught reading, especially if it’s something like middle grade, like, that’s a good way to, like, engage with, like, the young people who are in your life, like, and, you know, be on their level, on that same level with them. But, I mean, ultimately, like, I think, any good story, anybody of any age can learn anything from it, so.

KATHLEEN: Yeah, I mean, I obviously agree, but I, like you, have a children’s lit degree, so.

ALLY: Yeah, yeah. Well, and also, also, I’ll say this, okay. Everybody, um, I’m seeing a lot of people transition to, like, adult horror fiction right now, just because middle grade, that area is such a tough sale… a tough sell because, you know, literacy crisis, um, kids not reading as much as they used to. Um, I’m going to continue to write in that space, because I feel very strongly that, like, YA and adult fiction are great, but, like, if the kids are dropping off at middle grade …It happens sometimes. People come back to books later in life, but there’s no guarantee, and so, like, the best way to ensure that is to, like, make sure that they are reading, like, straight through. Like, because you can’t always, like, hope that they’re gonna make that jump from, like, picture books, read a little bit of middle grade, and then stop reading for, like, a decade of their life, and then suddenly, you know, oh, I’m gonna pick up YA or pick up adult fiction. And so I think it would behoove everybody to make sure that everyone is reading middle grade and supporting middle grade, because if you want those adult sales, if you want those YA sales, you know, if you want to, like, you know, be able to tell stories for those age groups, we also have to, like, worry about, like, the younger end of the reading spectrum. So, that’s just my take, but…

KATHLEEN: Yeah. No, I love that. That’s such a good point. Extremely true. Yeah. Also, when you were talking about, like, uh, sitting with, sort of, your own memories of childhood, um, because adults rewrite their memories of childhood all the time.

ALLY: Yes. Yep.

KATHLEEN: Um, and I think one thing that we do a lot is turn things that were very stressful to us at the time into funny stories as adults. And I definitely do that, like, I was also a very anxious kid, and there’s some stuff looking back now that I’m like, you know, that wasn’t actually a big deal, and it was kind of funny that I was that freaked out, um, like, one story – um, and this is from when I was very little, I don’t actually remember it. But, um, I was in preschool, and I had wandered through the room while my parents were watching the news, and there was a story about, like, a crayon recall, because there was lead in them. Um, and the next day at preschool, the teachers had to call my mom and be like, um, Kathleen’s confiscating everyone’s crayons and crying. Which is very funny. But also, at the time, I must have been very upset.

ALLY: It’s funny, but… yeah, at age… what, probably 5?

KATHLEEN: Like, 4 or 5, yeah.

ALLY: Yeah, yeah, at that age, like, I… and I… I talk…I talk to kids, like, you know, during, um, virtual school visits and stuff like that, and I tell them, they’re like, oh, what’s one piece of advice? Everything feels like the end of the world, and it feels like the biggest thing when you are a kid, so, like, I don’t doubt for a second that you thought you were saving the whole world by confiscating crayons.

KATHLEEN: Yes. Yes.

ALLY: I don’t doubt it!

KATHLEEN: Yeah, uh, so, like, even, you know, looking at those memories that you’ve sort of reframed, and I think, you know, as they should be reframed as you get older, but also, like, acknowledging, like, okay, but little me was dead serious.

ALLY: Yeah. The opposite can be true, too. Like, I think that you can experience things that, like, your young mind isn’t quite processing. Um, and so they don’t feel as, like, serious. Like, I… I…I play this little game in my head a lot, where I’m like, this person, you know, when I was a kid, and they were really fun. And then you look at that person in adulthood, and you start to see the cracks, you know, where it’s like, oh, okay, like, you weren’t okay, or like, in this situation, like, I thought you were fine, but you weren’t fine, it was just my young brain wasn’t necessarily processing, you know, all of the emotions that you might have been feeling in that moment. So I think it goes, like, both ways, like, you could just totally, like, make light of something, and then as an adult, you’re like, oh my goodness, like, that was, like, horrible or tragic, so.

KATHLEEN: Yeah, that’s also a really good point. Um, or like, you know, stuff you convince yourself, you’re like, that’s just friends making jokes with each other when you’re, like, in middle school, and then you get older, and you’re like, that was bullying.

ALLY: That was bullying. They were making fun of me, and I just didn’t know it, kind of thing, yep.

KATHLEEN: Yeah. Exactly.

ALLY: Exactly, yeah.

KATHLEEN: All right, um, so, actually, this question you’ve already pretty much answered, um, which was, what are some things you think frighten kids same age as your characters, and what frightened you at that age? So if you’d like to elaborate.

ALLY: Yeah, I mean, I can. I think, so, I think on, like, a lower… a lower level, and that’s not to say that it wasn’t as scary at the time, but, like, on the lower level, I was definitely terrified of cryptids. That’s why I wrote a cryptid book. Um, specifically Bigfoot. I was terrified of being abducted by aliens, because I just thought that that must be the scariest thing in the world, and I… I had, like, a deep, deep interest in aliens. Aliens!

KATHLEEN: Yes, I see and appreciate very much.

ALLY: Um, also, I don’t know if you can see this, um, this is from the Big Book of Mysteries, published by Nosy Crow, and it is a scene from the book of spontaneous human combustion, which was another…As an adult, I laugh about it, right? But when I was, like, 9? Oh, man, like, don’t think about spontaneous human combustion too much, because it will happen if you think about it.

KATHLEEN: Because then it’ll happen.

ALLY: So, when I left… when I left, um, one of my old jobs, they gave me this print from the book. Um, and I’m like, great, now I get to look at spontaneous human combustion. It’s actually a fantastic gift, I love it, but like, that was, like, a fear that seems irrational in adulthood, but seemed totally rational, you know, when I was, like, a kid. Um, so I was afraid of, like, stuff like that. Um, some of those fears, you know, obviously, like, I’m not as afraid of cryptids today, like, I… I love to get in bed and, like, listen to, like, a spooky, uh, cryptid encounter or something like that. It’s, like, my favorite thing. Um, but, like, some fears, you hold onto. So, like, I… like, I think I mentioned before, I’m still – I’m terrified of the dark. I… it’s one thing, like, I’ve never gotten over. Um, heights are a new thing for me. Um, I was very afraid, also, of, like, stranger danger. And I have discovered that this might just be, like, a generational thing, where, like, millennials were brought up in a time where you didn’t go near white vans. You didn’t take candy from anybody who was, like, trying to give you anything to eat. Um, if you were older, like, you didn’t even park your car by, like, a van that had a door that opened on the side, because you could get abducted! Um, I was joking with somebody in my spooky middle grade group, where I was like, oh, I still remember the phone number for Scruff McGruff.

KATHLEEN: That’s a throwback.

ALLY: Scruff McGruff, because you were supposed to report crimes and, like – and then Unsolved Mysteries, like, Unsolved Mysteries, they always, always had episodes dedicated to, like, these kids were abducted, or taken, and it was just a very, you know, if your parents left the house, you don’t open the door for anyone, like, anyone. I don’t care if you’ve known this person for a decade, you don’t open the door. Um, so I think that this was very much, like, instilled in our generation, and I’ve found that, like, with some younger kids, like, it’s not as prevalent of a fear, um, and I don’t know if that’s just because, like, parenting is different, like, you know, um, parents… not to say that parents weren’t watchful, that’s not what I’m trying to say at all, but like, um, because we grew up, you know, with that stranger danger and, like, millennials are parents now, like, that is, like, the thinking. So, like, there is, like, extra caution, you know, when you go to the grocery store, this or that. So, like, I found that, like, that is, like, one thing that I, uh… I don’t know if kids are as afraid of stranger danger quite the same way that, like, we were raised to fear strangers.

Yeah, so, like, I, you know, it’s… I don’t know if kids today are quite… have quite the fear of, like, stranger danger that, like, we used to have growing up, and I… I think, you know, um, as a kid, though, like, you know, on a higher level, I was really afraid of my family being broken apart, and like we talked… you talked about this a little bit with, like, Mystery James, like, she’s afraid her aunt’s gonna give her up at some point. Um, and that was a big fear of mine, is that, like, anytime my parents left the house together, I was certain, like, you could not convince me otherwise. I was certain that, like, something was going to happen to both of them. And then I’m one of four kids, and then I… the fear was, like, my siblings and I are going to be separated, and, like, I’ll never see them again. And some of that, like, I… I’ve thought a little bit about it, and I think, you know, watching stuff like Unsolved Mysteries now, today, I’m like, oh, that’s where that fear came from, because it happens so often and, you know, shows like Unsolved Mysteries. Um, and so, like, I, you know, the fears are all over the spectrum. Like, they were big, they were small. Um, and then I think, you know, as an adult, uh, some of those fears, you hang on to them, but I think that, like, there are certain fears that, like, are just universal across, like, all of childhood. Like, it doesn’t matter, and the dark is, like, one of them. Heights are one of them, you know? Maybe not all kids don’t have, like, stranger danger fear like we do, but like, I’m sure that there’s something similar for, like, their generation, so.

KATHLEEN: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, Unsolved Mysteries was… was a big after-school, uh, my sister and I would watch together. Um, and definitely would absolutely scare myself with. I think of it regularly as an adult. There was one where it was, like, uh… it was …It was one of their less scary ones, because it was, like, insurance fraud. Um, but it was, like, uh, trucks would box you in on the… on the highway, and then, like, one of them would, like, make you rear-end. And then would, like, you know, get insurance money. Um, but every time there’s, like, a truck on two sides of me when I’m driving, I’m like, it’s happening.

ALLY: Yeah, those fears, they, like, stay with you. I… but you know what? Uh, without Unsolved Mysteries, I would not be the spooky person that I am today, um, because it is… it was how I got, like, a taste of everything. Like, it’s how I learned about ghosts, it’s how I learned about cryptids, it’s how I learned about UFOs, it’s how I learned about, like, kidnap… like, I learned all of my fears from Unsolved Mysteries.

KATHLEEN: Yes. All right, um, so what are some, aside from Unsolved Mysteries, what are some fictional monster stories that were most formative for you? Especially in your own childhood.

ALLY: Oh, I… well, like I said, I… I used to watch a lot of, like, horror movies when I was a kid, like, that was, like, a thing that my family did, like, every Friday or Saturday night, like, everybody crowded around the TV, and we watched a scary movie, so, like, um, I would definitely say, like, just about all creature features, like, if it had a monster, I was in. Um, as far as, like, books, um, Goosebumps. Um, because… and they had, like, the… they had the monster appeal, like, right there on the cover. It was like, you know that this book is going to be about an evil sponge beneath the sink, because, you know, it was just right there on the cover. Um, and those books were, like, pretty scary. Like, Slappy is still pretty scary, as, like, I know he’s, like, just a puppet, but, like, he’s still a monster, and he’s very scary to me. Um, so, like, Goosebumps, uh, Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark, um, there are… I know, like, that they tended to be, like, more urban legend, and they involved more people, but, like, I think the artwork just really sold it, you know, for all of us, and I… there was something about the way, like, Stephen Gammell presented these, like, human people in kind of, like, a grotesque and monstrous way. Like, they look just enough, like, people where we can call them people. but not really. Like, there’s something, like, off. Like, the uncanny valley of it. Like, there’s something off about them, where it’s like if I saw, like, just this, like, figure walking down the… I probably wouldn’t go near you, because, like, something in my, like, you know, primal brain is like, eh, this is not right. Um, so I would say, like, even though they’re not, like, particularly monsters, like, there’s something monstrous, I guess, about, like, those representations in those books, so.

KATHLEEN: For sure. And I tend to have a broad definition of monster, so it counts.

ALLY: Yeah, I mean, we’re living in an age where humans are really, really showing how evil and monstrous they can be, so.

KATHLEEN: Yep. We sure are. Uh, here broadcasting from the winter of 2026. All right, and then my final question is, what is your favorite monster, and why? And this can be either, like, a specific character, or, like, a just monster type. So, like, my favorite monsters are werewolves.

ALLY: Oh, mine too! That’s so easy! Yay!

KATHLEEN: Yay!

ALLY: Um, I… I still have a soft spot for cryptids, um, you know, I…every now and then, I’ll turn on a podcast and, like, hear a cryptid story that just, like, chills me, and I’m like, ooh, that was good. Um, but werewolves are probably it. And so, if we’re in that vein, though, I would say Dogman, are you familiar with Dogman?

KATHLEEN: Yeah.

ALLY: Okay, so, like, Dogman is basically just the werewolf of the cryptid world, except maybe they don’t change back. Maybe they’re just, like, full-time werewolves. Um, so I think that’s why I love them so much, but I… for me, it’s… it’s werewolves, and it’s, um, purely from a very juvenile appreciation of physical transformations. Um, like, I… I want to watch a werewolf movie, because I want to see what the transformation is like. I want to see how believable it is. I want to see if they’re using CGI or, you know, real prosthetics, like…Also, I don’t know if you have a preference – bipedal werewolves, all day.

KATHLEEN: Oh, see, I’m the other way.

ALLY: Or the other way, really? What makes you choose the quadrupedal werewolves?

KATHLEEN: Uh, I think I like the idea of just, like, fully transforming into an animal, of, like completing that… like, of being both human and animal, uh… like, but not at the same time. But, like, having both of those, like, 100%.

ALLY: Yeah, okay. I… for me, it’s, uh, it’s a scare thing. Like, obviously, like, dogs can be scary, but I think if they’re on four legs and they feel more like dogs, and I’m like, uh, I’m not as… I’m not as afraid as if you are towering over me, and you’re walking in a way that is, like, human, but you are not human. At least during the full moon. So, yeah, it’s definitely werewolves all day.

KATHLEEN: Yes, absolutely. I mean, they’re just, like, so… and they’re so versatile. They can mean anything, because it’s, like, it’s just the essence of monstrosity, right? It’s, like, human and not, and more and less.

ALLY: Yes. Have you… have you read, um…uh, is it called Squad Goals? Sorry, I’m just trying to look at my bookshelf.

KATHLEEN: The graphic novel?

ALLY: Yes.

KATHLEEN: I think it’s just called Squad.

ALLY: Oh, Squad.

KATHLEEN: If we’re talking about the same thing, then yes.

ALLY: Maggie Tokuda-Hall?

KATHLEEN: Yes, yes.

ALLY: Um, that’s a really good… a really good werewolf one, and then the other one is, um…Shoot, I’m so sorry. Oh, it’s called Artie and the Wolf Moon by Olivia Stephens. Have you read that one?

KATHLEEN: Oh, no, I haven’t read that one.

ALLY: Oh, you might enjoy that. It’s a kid’s graphic novel about a girl who discovers that she is a werewolf, and her werewolf family, they’re supposed to help protect the town, um, from vampires, so it’s really good.

KATHLEEN: Nice. Definitely up my alley. Um, I actually just started, uh, releasing my own…one of my own YA manuscripts, uh, I’m reading it aloud on YouTube on, like, the off weeks from the video essays. And that’s a werewolf story. So if you’re interested.

ALLY: Oh, yeah, for sure, for sure, definitely.

KATHLEEN: The first few chapters are out there.

ALLY: Okay, cool.

KATHLEEN: Uh, if… I don’t know if you’re an audiobook or, like, podcast person, but…

ALLY: Oh, yeah, no, I love podcasts and audiobooks. They’re great.

KATHLEEN: Okay, well then, I got… I have some pretty gnarly transformations in there, so.

ALLY: Okay, all right, we’ll check them out.

KATHLEEN: Thanks. Well, I hope you enjoy.

ALLY: Yeah. Um, yeah, that’s cool. I like that we both went to Simmons, and we both love werewolves. Great.

KATHLEEN: Amazing connections made at, uh, Thrillerdelphia.

ALLY: For sure.

KATHLEEN: Well, those were all the questions I had. Um, so again, thank you so much for this. This has been extremely fun.

ALLY: Yeah, no, thank you! Um, I appreciate you reading my book and checking it out, and um, if I could do a little plug, Mystery James 2. Um, it’s a duology, the sequel is coming out in September of 2026, so this year. Um, so you have time if you’re watching this or listening, you have time to read the first book, and then get ready for the second one.

KATHLEEN: Yeah, absolutely, and I… as someone who just read it, um, highly recommend. I can’t wait to read, um, It Came From the Trees. As I mentioned to you in my email, I didn’t even know that was you when I went to the author event, but, um, I got it for Christmas, so I’m excited to read it.

ALLY: So fun. Oh, if you… if you… if you are somebody who likes, um, audiobooks and podcasts too, uh, the audiobook is fantastic. Shayna Small did the audiobook for It Came From the Trees. Um, and her voice is fantastic, but it’s also fun to read it, um, because for those who are not familiar with it, It Came from the Trees – um, I have a deep love of found footage, and so, like, it’s, uh, got, like, blog posts, newspaper articles, scout guide tips, like, all that stuff, like, throughout the book, and so, like, I think it’s a fun back and forth. If you’re somebody who does, like, book and audiobook at the same time, which I tend to do, just so that, like, I can power through more books.

KATHLEEN: Yeah. Well, that sounds really fun. Um, and I… I love a Bigfoot, so I can’t wait.

ALLY: Well, thank you for having me, Kathleen, I appreciate it.

KATHLEEN: Thank you!

Thank you again so much to Ally Russell for sitting down with me for such a fun and interesting conversation. You all should definitely go check out her books. I’ve got both her own website and some purchase links in the description below. Let us know your thoughts about spooky middle-grade, childhood fears, and favorite cryptids in the comments. And don’t forget to like and subscribe so you don’t miss more discussions about great monster stories. Stay tuned for the interview with Laura Parnum tomorrow. Take care and I will see you particularly soon for more monstrous food for thought.